Retail Razor & This Week in Innovation: An #NRF Conversation

[00:00:00] Jeff Roster: Well, hello, when and welcome back to another edition of This Weekend Innovation. Well, actually, it's not another edition of, of Twin. This is what's called in the podcast Business A Swap. And what a swap cast is is when two different podcast hosts from different different podcasts come together and, and share the same content or, or do, do, uh, do you know the same, the same interview, and share it on both.

[00:00:28] Jeff Roster: Um, in, in both podcast, uh, uh, RSS feeds, and this is Ricardo Belmar at Retail Razor and myself just going around and interviewing folks at, at uh, nrf. And honestly, it was just probably one of the great experiences of my career. This podcast probably is the pinnacle of what I'm, what I'm ever gonna produce, and maybe even what Ricardo's gonna produce.

[00:00:55] Jeff Roster: It's. Simply, uh, brilliant. Uh, technically it's artistic [00:01:00] and most importantly it's four friends that come together with who count their retail experience in decades, not in years. Talking about what just happened at, at Vicky's v i p awards event, and then also Retail Orphan Super Saturday. And the interview was done Saturday night and, um, we were projecting what's gonna happen, what we thinks gonna happen at nrf.

[00:01:24] Jeff Roster: And to be honest, we hit it outta the park. We, we knew, we knew that NF was gonna be off the charts cuz we saw it, we saw it at, at Vicky's event Friday night. And then we definitely saw it at Super Saturday. The thing that I really love about this, this pod is the, just the fact it's such a. Example of like what we do with Super Saturday where, um, you know, I've said very publicly, I think there's four great events at NRF after hours.

[00:01:50] Jeff Roster: It's, it's, it's uh, Vicki Cantrell's, v i p awards dinner on Friday night. It's retail or initiative. Super Saturday. It's Kathy Hawk's, uh, retail Insiders on [00:02:00] Sunday night and now, uh, rethink Retail's, um, big Bash on on Monday night. Four really big events. The best, absolutely the best in the business and what.

[00:02:11] Jeff Roster: And of those four, I really think super Saturday's probably the best. And the reason it's the best is because all the other players that work on all the other really great events all come together and there's one event, which is Super Saturday and, and produce this. You know what, what I just think is an amazing event and this podcast is kind of similar to that in that it's Ricardo driving it.

[00:02:33] Jeff Roster: Absolutely the best podcaster in the business. There's no, there's, there's no doubt about it. Absolutely the best, uh, and the best voice, the best, uh, the best strategy, the best way to execute. I mean, I go to school every time I'm around him. Um, so it's his equipment, his passion, his vision, uh, mi it's in the Microsoft office.

[00:02:48] Jeff Roster: So shout out to Microsoft for, for letting us, uh, letting, letting us host that event, that amazing event, um, super Saturday at their offices. And it's a couple of my mics that I drug around. And believe it or not, two [00:03:00] mics in their cables actually is not, not an insignificant amount of weight. Um, and it's Gabrielle Bach from Rethink Retail who shot the video and we suckered her in saying, Hey, Um, we're just gonna shoot like five or six minutes.

[00:03:15] Jeff Roster: And of course, you know, you put four people together, three podcasters. Um, and, and Vicky, and we went 50 minutes. She actually ended up a secret. She actually ended up running out of battery life about four minutes and, you know, with four minutes left. And so if you'll notice the video, it's uh, it's uh, it's Ricardo's brilliant approach to fill it in.

[00:03:34] Jeff Roster: I was just gonna grab some of the video I shot on my iPhone and fill it in, but no, that's, you know, Ricardo's gonna do it better than that. Um, I debated cutting. Or, or taking the, the original video that, um, that, uh, Gabriela shot and then that Ricardo synced up with his audio and then cut it into my thing.

[00:03:53] Jeff Roster: And I thought, no, man, this is, this is so beautiful. It would be, it would be like me taking a spray paint, [00:04:00] uh, to the Mona Lisa, the not a chance. So you're gonna see, um, you're gonna see Ricardo's amazing podcast re retail razor. If you're not subscribing to that, you absolutely should. It's, it's the best in the business without a doubt.

[00:04:10] Jeff Roster: Um, it's created with love and passion and it's just beautiful. And there's not a chance I'm gonna take an editor to that. So what I'm doing is literally just dropping in his, his podcast, which is our, uh, joint interview, and I hope, hopefully you enjoy it. Um, I think it's just a real celebration of just what an amazing week many, many, many of us had at N R F.

[00:04:33] Jeff Roster: And I think it's definitely a testimony to the, the. Just the phenomenal thing that we, that is the industry that we call retail. So hopefully you'll give it a listen. Um, make sure you like and subscribe it. Uh, absolutely check out the retail razor and let's all come together in 2023. Shake off some of the, some of the, the, the stresses and the griefs we've all fought through the last three years.

[00:04:58] Jeff Roster: And let's just have an [00:05:00] amazing, amazing 2023. Give to listen and listen to what you think.

[00:05:11] Jeff Roster: You're listening to The Retail Razor Show, where your expert hosts and the guests cast through the class and retail and retail tag to shape the future of retail.

[00:05:24] Ricardo Belmar: Hello and welcome to a special season two episode 10 of the retail Razor. This is the first of a multi-part series recorded live and in person at the NRF 2023 show from January 13th to 18th, otherwise known as NRF Week.

[00:05:40] Ricardo Belmar: And I'm your host, Ricardo Belmar.

[00:05:42] Casey Golden: And I'm your co-host, Casey Golden. Welcome, retail Razor show listeners, retail's favorite podcast for product junkies, commerce technologists, and everyone else in retail and retail tech alike. And for this special bonus, welcome N R F fans to our hot take, [00:06:00]hashtag N R F Live miniseries.

[00:06:03] Ricardo Belmar: Well, Casey, this is an incredible treat for listeners and viewers, just like our last episode, our top 10 trends and predictions for 2023. The recordings in this mini-series all happen live and in person. While you know about 35,000 or so of our closest retail friends swarm to New York City , I

[00:06:21] Casey Golden: just loved recording face-to-face when we're just not.

[00:06:24] Casey Golden: These two little squares from the shoulders up on a Zoom

[00:06:28] Ricardo Belmar: screen. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So let's set the stage here for this series. Lot lots happening cuz not only is this a special live and in-person recording series, but it's also a podcast crossover event. Wait, really? Yes. Really. We are crossing over with our fellow retail Avenger, Jeff roster and his this week in innovation podcast.

[00:06:49] Ricardo Belmar: Here's what'll happen. So this episode kicks off our hashtag NRF live series with what may be my absolute favorite podcast recording of our entire run. So far, [00:07:00] all time

[00:07:00] Casey Golden: fave, like that's saying a lot. I mean, I adore Jeff, but this is an all time fave.

[00:07:08] Ricardo Belmar: Yes, yes. Really. Of, of, of all time. Well, at least until the next one,

[00:07:14] Casey Golden: Alright, well, with that kind of buildup you'll have to explain a little more. So.

[00:07:20] Ricardo Belmar: Okay. Okay. So late last year, Jeff and I were talking about our NRF plans, comparing how many places we, we overlapped and realized it would be a great opportunity to do a series of interviews of super interesting people at nrf.

[00:07:34] Ricardo Belmar: Friends we don't often see in person and just talk trends, talk about what's hot at the show, what's coming next in retail. So the crossover was born and we thought, we'll, we'll jointly host these interviews and then we'll just release them all across both the retail razor show and this week innovation.

[00:07:50] Ricardo Belmar: Very cool. I'm digging this. I bet. Wait, there's more in your best. I'm trying to build up some suspense here. We're already on the edge of [00:08:00] our seat. , so, so not only is this our first crossover series, but it's also our first sponsored podcast.

[00:08:08] Casey Golden: Look at our podcast. It's

[00:08:09] Ricardo Belmar: adulting. Exactly, exactly. We didn't realize just how popular we we've become.

[00:08:14] Ricardo Belmar: So while Jeff and I were making plans around who we tried it, Interview during N R F, there was one important thing we realized we actually need a really solid place to sit down and record during N R F, because let's face it, the Javit Center isn't the most conducive to podcast recording.

[00:08:30] Casey Golden: It's not the most conducive for much

[00:08:33] Casey Golden: So, I mean, I don't think we could do this while sitting in front of Starbucks either,

[00:08:39] Ricardo Belmar: right? E Exactly, exactly. But fortunately for us, our, our good friends of the show and avid podcast supporters at AAU made us a really nice offer to use some space in their lounge area on the fourth floor just above the expo halls.

[00:08:51] Ricardo Belmar: Fans of our show may have seen a preview photo of this setup on LinkedIn during N R F as we posted a few behind the scenes picked courtesy of the, the marketing team at a [00:09:00] oh big

[00:09:01] Casey Golden: shout out to the marketing team at a, for their support and for providing such an amazing space. I wish I could have been there for all

[00:09:10] Ricardo Belmar: of these.

[00:09:11] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, we, we definitely missed you for those and, and for this episode's recording, we were also fortunate to take advantage of another great spot in one of the conference rooms at the Microsoft Times Square office. Right after this year's retail ROI Super Saturday event had concluded right at the same location.

[00:09:27] Ricardo Belmar: So extra fortunate, we happened to run into two very special friends of the show who've been on before. They agreed to sit down with Jeff and me to have an open conversation about our first two days at N R F about what we expected to find, what we might uncover during the show. And to be fair, Jeff and I pitched this as a quick 15 minute recording to them to convince them to do it.

[00:09:46] Ricardo Belmar: And of course, that turned into a nearly 50 minute session because guess what happens when you have four retail friends get together, haven't seen each other in person in so long. Yeah,

[00:09:56] Casey Golden: we just don't stop. I mean, it would be very [00:10:00] much like a friend's TV show reunion episode. You just. Keep going and going because there's just Yeah.

[00:10:08] Casey Golden: Too much happen in the industry right

[00:10:10] Ricardo Belmar: now. You, you said it, you said it. So, so we'll be hearing our, our conversation this episode with none other than retail legend, Vicki Cantrell, currently c e o at vendors and partnership and organizer of the v i P awards event during N R F plus. Ron Thurston, author of the bestselling book, retail Pride and Host of the Retail in America podcast and tour.

[00:10:30] Ricardo Belmar: And of course, to top it all off, since we're all rethink retail top retail influencers for 2023, just announced at the N R F show. Absolutely

[00:10:39] Casey Golden: incredible. And I'm so honored to be on the list this year and included a big congrats all around to everyone for making the cut and sharing their perspective.

[00:10:52] Ricardo Belmar: Absolutely. Absolutely. And and fun fact, this might even surprise some listeners and viewers, but Ron and I met in person for the first time at this [00:11:00] N R F show. Absolutely. It's like a pandemic story, right? I mean as after all these years that we've known each other. But this was the first time we actually met face-to-face in person.

[00:11:10] Ricardo Belmar: Wow. I

[00:11:11] Casey Golden: didn't realize that. I actually met Ron during the pandemic in Dominican

[00:11:16] Ricardo Belmar: Republic. That's right. That's right. .

[00:11:20] Casey Golden: It's just, that is just an amazing little fun fact. You know, we forget how, how often we work with people that we've actually That's right. Never been i r l with

[00:11:32] Ricardo Belmar: That's right. And you, and you'll hear us talk about that in the recording too, cuz we all had stories of that had happened to us just in those first couple of days.

[00:11:39] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. I

[00:11:40] Casey Golden: mean, how could we build up this episode any more than we already have? So let's get to it and not keep everyone waiting.

[00:11:49] Ricardo Belmar: Yes, I totally agree. I wanna point out one more thing. You didn't just do that, did you?

[00:11:56] Casey Golden: I did, but first I wanna point out that you [00:12:00] said multiple viewer multiple times now, and I know we told our listeners they could see us on video in episode one of this season, but we've had some TE technical issues plaguing us all season long.

[00:12:15] Casey Golden: This is actually the first one we've released this season with video.

[00:12:21] Ricardo Belmar: Good point. Good catch, Casey. Yes. Yes. We actually do have video this time and honestly we have our, our great friends at Rethink Retail. To thank for that Gabriela bod, producers at Rethink was gracious enough to record our conversation on video and, well, if you're watching the video, you have to pay attention to just how small a conference room that was.

[00:12:42] Ricardo Belmar: I don't know how she managed to stay with us for, for almost the entire time. Carefully walking around the room with video gear and it, it was just an amazing effort. You know, we, we had also told her it was gonna be 15 minutes and she thought, oh, great. This is, this will be a fun to do. And sure enough turns into 50.

[00:12:59] Ricardo Belmar: So, [00:13:00] you know what, what an amazing effort and thanks so much to, to Gabrielle and rethink for, for doing that for us. Well

[00:13:05] Casey Golden: talk about commitment and just incredible continued support. And if you're a careful viewer, you'll also catch another familiar rethink retail face in the background, taking photos. I won't give away who it is yet, but when we come back, we'll let you

[00:13:20] Ricardo Belmar: in on the scoop.

[00:13:21] Ricardo Belmar: Okay. Well, a, after this incredibly long intro that we've managed now, maybe our longest yet, let's dive in and listen to what Jeff, Vicky, Ron, and myself had to say about the v i P awards, retail roi, NRF in general, and just the state of retail today and, and what we expect to, to happen this year. And, and you'll see why this is quickly my, my favorite podcast we've ever done.

[00:13:49] Ricardo Belmar: Hey everybody. I'm here with Jeff Roster, howdy, co-host of this Weekend Innovation. And you guessed it. This is part of our crossover series between our two podcasts. How

[00:13:59] Jeff Roster: you [00:14:00] doing, Jeff? I am doing fantastic. Ricardo, how about

[00:14:02] Ricardo Belmar: yourself? I'm doing wonderful. And part of that I would say is true for you too, because we are live and in person at the NRF show, which we haven't been in quite some time.

[00:14:13] Ricardo Belmar: Three

[00:14:13] Jeff Roster: years. Three years. Well, actually I, well, you were here. I was here. You get bonus points for last

[00:14:18] Ricardo Belmar: year. Last year. You get bonus points for last year. The, the startups

[00:14:22] Jeff Roster: came strong

[00:14:22] Ricardo Belmar: last year. That's, it's true. I'll leave it. That's very true. You can, we'll leave that one there and on that one there. And we are joined by two incredibly wonderful people in the retail industry.

[00:14:32] Ricardo Belmar: Vicki Cantrell, how you doing? Vicki? Good. and Ron Thurston. Hi everyone. Happy to be here. So we thought we would just kind of kick things off by talking a little bit about the first couple of events that have started n r f week this year, starting with Vicki, with your event last night as of when we were recording this, the vendors in partnership award ceremony.

[00:14:53] Ricardo Belmar: Why don't you give us a, a quick recap of some of the highlights.

[00:14:56] Vicki Cantrell: Oh, I'd love to. It was really an amazing night. [00:15:00] Um, we, uh, I started this thing three years ago and last night I think we kind of crossed a threshold because the message that I have dreamed about is really taking hold. And it's about how we do business, not who does business with who, and really about problem solving, not solution selling.

[00:15:21] Vicki Cantrell: And the things that really resonated with me last night and the things that people come up and say to me have to do with the fact that I say that, you know, people buy from people. They don't buy from companies. , um, the gratitude that people had when they had to kind of put together their nominations and they realized they took a breath and said how far they've come and they were able to recognize their teams.

[00:15:47] Vicki Cantrell: These are all the relationship aspects, um, that flowed through the night. Aside from that, it was a beautiful night, beautiful venue. So much love in the room. We sold out. Congratulations

[00:15:59] Jeff Roster: [00:16:00] on. Thank you. That's a big achievement. Yeah. . I kinda liked it when I could move around a little. I know you do. I'm just so know.

[00:16:07] there

[00:16:07] Ricardo Belmar: were people today, it wasn't quite as easy

[00:16:09] Jeff Roster: movement around this, this time. Yeah. .

[00:16:11] Vicki Cantrell: But, uh, yeah, so, uh, we're really thrilled with the evening and a lot of great buzz and I just believe, I always thought I was pushing a rock uphill to take away this, this aspect of buyer, seller. Yeah. But you know, it's.

[00:16:28] Vicki Cantrell: that rock is moving. Yeah. And so I'm thrilled. Yeah.

[00:16:31] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. I I I, I like the way you put it because I really feel like your event, uh, so nicely demonstrate that it is a relationship. It's not just buyer seller. Right. Right. It's a partnership between what we're all collectively trying to achieve. Yeah.

[00:16:45] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah.

[00:16:46] Vicki Cantrell: Everybody in the room is equals and that's what makes this the most special party. And, and people are not tired. You know, they're, this is their celebration. This is the celebration for the people that actually [00:17:00] run this show and are, are gonna go through a grueling four or five days that's gonna make the, or break their year.

[00:17:07] Vicki Cantrell: Right. Right. And why not? Let's celebrate for what they bring to the industry and what they allow us all to. .

[00:17:16] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm. . Yep. Well said. Well said. Ron, what's your impression so far at like, I, I guess I would call this day two of NRF

[00:17:23] Jeff Roster: for us,

[00:17:23] Ricardo Belmar: I dunno for everybody,

[00:17:26] Ron Thurston: but for us, you know, I had the, I had the, I've known Vicki for I think 15 years, so we go way back Tor Tory Birch years.

[00:17:35] Ron Thurston: Um, and Vicky was generous enough last year to invite me to give out an award to retailer's favorite, and this year I was nominated. So it was great to just be there and to. Even though I'm not a vendor, I feel like I know so many of the vendors. I've been a retailer. I have so many friends in the room.

[00:17:52] Ron Thurston: It's just a joy. It's a joy to, to be there. And, and you're right, I think it's early. Everyone dresses up. Yes. You know, hi [00:18:00] Tuesday, I have this feeling, you know. We'll, I'll be wearing jeans and t-shirts, sneakers. Hundred percent don't care anymore. But, um, it's a beautiful event.

[00:18:07] Vicki Cantrell: Thanks. Beautiful.

[00:18:08] Vicki Cantrell: Unfortunately my feet are already cooked, but I'm only on day one. It's only, this is a, this I have not factored in, so. Right. I

[00:18:16] Ricardo Belmar: gotta That's true. We're, we're all still

[00:18:17] learning.

[00:18:18] Jeff Roster: So no sensible shoes then, huh? I have some .

[00:18:22] Ricardo Belmar: You can't get enough sensible shoes. Get enough shoes. That's true. Take away. I have from that.

[00:18:26] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah. No. No matter how much you try. So we're also all here on day two at one of my other favorite events of the week, retail ROIs Super Saturday. Uh, I was excited to be able to hosted this event at the Microsoft office in Times Square. Jeff, I think you wanna, you had some stats you'd like to share maybe on how we did

[00:18:47] Jeff Roster: Well, very well.

[00:18:50] Jeff Roster: that's, that's the analyst speak for, Hmm. I think we're well over $320,000. Yeah, I we're, it was the closer to three 50. Three 50. Wow. [00:19:00] Second biggest year revenue wise. Um, the other observations, uh, crazy energy. So I would agree with, um, you know, as, as somebody that was at, uh, Vicki's event, the energy was off the charts.

[00:19:12] Jeff Roster: That was the big speculation, um, that I was testing, you know, in the, the run up to N RF series I was doing is, what do you expect? You know, and we were talking about make sure you have, you know, masks and, and all this and be sensitive to who people, you know, whatever. And that's, that's all that advice is all still active.

[00:19:26] Jeff Roster: But, uh, I think, I think people are ready to rock and roll. Yeah. The energy is there, the energy's off. The energy's there, right. Um, there's definitely wanna be sensitive if people are still have, have whatever issues, but, uh, solid energy. We kind of got a sense of that Maybe Wednesday, Thursday. You could just start, I could start seeing the emails confirmed for, uh, v i p and definitely, definitely today for sure.

[00:19:48] Jeff Roster: This is day two and tons of energy people wanna, you know, re reconnect. Um, gosh, I dunno about you guys, but, um, I've bumped into at least 10 people that I've [00:20:00]known virtually

[00:20:01] Ricardo Belmar: for, for years now, right. For

[00:20:02] Jeff Roster: me years where we're at. Well, I believe I have a legitimate relationship, right? And I'm like, .

[00:20:08] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, no, that, that's absolutely true's true.

[00:20:11] Ricardo Belmar: So Ron, absolutely. Ron and I have now, I don't know, known each other for a couple years. A couple years now that we, this was the first day we finally got to meet in person's. True.

[00:20:20] Vicki Cantrell: It's really true. Okay. So I'm shocked because as, as well as Zoom does things, people look different in person, . And like somebody walked in who I've had probably 15 zooms with, and she was about a foot taller than I expected.

[00:20:37] Vicki Cantrell: She walked in and I thought, So you don't recognize, you know? Right, right. Yeah, it's really something. There'll be a lot of that this, this year

[00:20:45] Ricardo Belmar: I will be . Yeah, no, no doubt. No doubt. . So what's everyone thinking now that we've, we've kind of had a taste of the energy after a couple of events. The, the full-blown show starts tomorrow.[00:21:00]

[00:21:00] Ricardo Belmar: So what is everyone thinking The vibe is gonna be on the show floor.

[00:21:04] Vicki Cantrell: Mm-hmm. . I would say that, um, because of this energy and, and what I'm hearing just in a few conversations of today and yesterday is, uh, and people are actually saying that, you know, the pandemic, so we're ready to get back out there.

[00:21:21] Vicki Cantrell: They're using this kind of language and this is solution providers. And for them, that means get back out there. I wanna go to events, I wanna pick and choose different types of events. I wanna get, you know, more involved in different types of things. And today we heard about. Two different vendors who are now heavily involved and didn't know anything about roi.

[00:21:43] Vicki Cantrell: So when you, when you That hurt a little bit. When

[00:21:45] Ron Thurston: when she

[00:21:45] Vicki Cantrell: said that, it's like, oh yes, but, but you know, you just, because they are now wanting to be involved in new things, new ways, get back out there. Right. I would say the watch phrase is get back out there and that's what [00:22:00] we're gonna see on the floor.

[00:22:02] Vicki Cantrell: That people are gonna be looking to like, am I up to date on technology? Let me stop at all these booths to really feel like I'm connected again. Yeah, that's what I think.

[00:22:12] Ron Thurston: Yeah. And I think because there's been so much. Conversation about all the new ideas and all the new technology. Yeah. You actually need to touch and feel it.

[00:22:20] Ron Thurston: Yeah. Yeah. Similar to shopping in a retail store, I think I'm excited to go down, you know, innovation Yeah. Lane. And what are all these brands bringing, what are, what's happening? What are some big new ideas? Yeah. And you know, a lot of retailers, and I'm sure we'll speak about the Rethink retail bash coming up, but the minute I posted of, you know, hey, rethink retailers having this, the amount of responses that I received of like, I'd love to go, I'd love to go.

[00:22:46] Ron Thurston: Yes. The, the willingness and desire to reconnect is powerful.

[00:22:50] Ricardo Belmar: Powerful. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So, well since you brought up the, the rethink retail that we're, I think we're all going to be at, uh, Monday night. What, [00:23:00] what other, so day one, official day one, I'll call it right. For NRF Sunday tomorrow, that's on day two.

[00:23:07] Ricardo Belmar: Um, . Anything else anyone is excited to be going to about the remaining days? I'm sorry, but

[00:23:13] Vicki Cantrell: I can't not talk about rock and roll retail. I, I mean, you

[00:23:18] Ricardo Belmar: know, I'm with you on that one, ,

[00:23:19] Vicki Cantrell: that's, that's on that one, one thing where retailers are so embedded in different fun areas of life. Yeah. Okay. Yes. They do charity work.

[00:23:29] Vicki Cantrell: They go on trips. Mm-hmm. , they play music, they make a band, they ,

[00:23:34] Ricardo Belmar: it all comes together

[00:23:35] Vicki Cantrell: here and it all comes together here.

[00:23:37] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I'm excited for that one too. That's another, another Monday, late evening. Oh my gosh.

[00:23:43] Vicki Cantrell: Monday. Yes. And then of course the Retail Retailer Insider. I was just

[00:23:48] Ron Thurston: gonna say that one too.

[00:23:48] Ron Thurston: Yes. Yeah. It'll be my first year attending that.

[00:23:51] Jeff Roster: So get ready, get

[00:23:52] Ricardo Belmar: ready. That's a,

[00:23:53] Ron Thurston: that's a

[00:23:54] Ricardo Belmar: 9:00 PM on a Sunday. There

[00:23:55] Jeff Roster: won't be a lot of coat tie at that one. That's a little more raucous for sure. Um, very [00:24:00] good fun. Um, lot of people, uh, you know, so it's. The energy is clearly here. There's no doubt about it.

[00:24:06] Jeff Roster: The, uh, as ugly and hideous as Covid was, it clearly was a stimulant to, to innovation. I mean, we tracked that on this week. I think you did it on retail racer too. Yeah. The, the, I mean the number of opus, uh, setups were just off the charts. Mm-hmm. Right. We now realize low codes a real unique strategic advantage.

[00:24:23] Jeff Roster: Right. Uh, be able to move faster, more nimbler. And so I think what we're gonna see is really, I don't wanna say an explosion of innovation, cuz I would argue, I mean I've been tracking it for 20 years. Mm-hmm. , it's, it's, I, I don't think things just explode, but they accelerate and the ability to innovate and the fact that startups three or four or five years ago really weren't even, I mean, Vicky, when you were there, I mean you were just starting to bring the startups in.

[00:24:46] Jeff Roster: Yes, yes. They were always there. They were. I mean, I live in Silicon Valley, right. You've been doing startups really since Hewlett and Packard got together in 1938. Right. So we're not new to startups, but all of a sudden the industry has said, this is this giant [00:25:00]opportunity to. To, um, showcase this and this innovation has always been going on.

[00:25:04] Jeff Roster: That's why, you know, the big companies have, are, have been making acquisitions, but now we're, we're featuring these people. And this is the, I mean, the heart of of business is these and some young entrepreneurs, a lot, not so young entrepreneurs, but that energy and they're being featured now. Yeah. And it's just amazing.

[00:25:23] Jeff Roster: Yeah. And it's just gonna be, I think it's gonna be a celebration of innovation is maybe the way I'm gonna start

[00:25:28] Vicki Cantrell: phrasing it, Jeff, you know, I also wanna say something about innovation. That, that overused word, okay. Mm-hmm. . And, because when you say innovation, everybody thinks tech innovation. Mm-hmm. . Okay.

[00:25:38] Vicki Cantrell: But what the last few years have shown us is that innovation is across the board, innovation on how you speak to each other. Mm-hmm. , innovation on how teams work together. Innovation on how you approach something. By the way, you wouldn't. Low-code wouldn't have such a, a presence. If there was an [00:26:00] innovation in how you do things.

[00:26:01] Vicki Cantrell: Well, that's the key, not just important, uh, tech. And so people have really changed how they do business, and that requires innovation of thought and innovation of how you use your people and great. You know, because retailers have to be like super agile. Yeah.

[00:26:21] Ron Thurston: And, and it's only as effective as the adoption normally, which has to happen in a store.

[00:26:27] Ron Thurston: How brave. So it's not the truth. It's the truth. And so there, there's so much powerful statement. New, there's a lot of. I'll say this, there's a lot of people who develop technology that have never worked in retail. Yes. And so there's Yes. . I know it's a whole

[00:26:42] Ricardo Belmar: statement. I'm just gonna say it . Shockingly we've got, we've got

[00:26:45] Jeff Roster: a whole podcast where, where we could talk, tell stories.

[00:26:49] Jeff Roster: Central office. No, it's not a central office. It's called a store. Please change that on your slide, Nick. I love it. I catch a lot of that. Love it. And you still see it

[00:26:57] Ron Thurston: at the store level. You do. I mean, it's the [00:27:00] 50% want to quit their job

[00:27:01] Ricardo Belmar: working in retail stat. Oh, right. It's those, I

[00:27:04] Ron Thurston: think that, and so I think there's this whole concept again of what does the store need?

[00:27:09] Ron Thurston: Mm-hmm. ask the store. Right, right. Before you go and develop technology. Right. And there are, um, there's a solution that will be in the innovation aisle this year called re. and they're doing on-demand staffing. Yeah. And so this is an actual need that is in integral to the success of our industry. Yeah. To say that we need on-demand gig economy, style retail workforce.

[00:27:33] Ron Thurston: Right. Because the workforce is demanding it. They're demanding flexibility. So here's someone that's innovating this idea Yes. And coming up with new technology. So don't just create something because you think it's a good idea. Ask the people who need this technology and how they'll use it. That's why I'm such a big UIC fan who were, you know, also nominated last night.

[00:27:54] Ron Thurston: Yeah. They, they really listen to what the stores need. Yep. Stores and [00:28:00] restaurants need and it's, that's why the adoption's so high.

[00:28:03] Jeff Roster: Yeah. I'll tell you a little secret. There's a bunch of CIOs that the first question they ask a tech vendor is, tell me what you think of my store. That's a great question. Yes.

[00:28:13] Jeff Roster: You want, you wanna know how many vendors can wash out right out there? A lot. A lot. A lot. . So these people have spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to maybe fly travel, prepare for a meeting, and they did not go to the physical store mm-hmm. and make some observations. Yeah. And, and it's just like, you know, it's just like a crocodile, just ready to pounce.

[00:28:34] Jeff Roster: Cuz they, you know, the cio just first question, tell me what you think. And he, it's not a trick question. No, I was in your store. It seemed busy. Mm-hmm. , it seemed cluttered, it seemed really good. I liked the lighting. I did. I, it,

[00:28:44] Ricardo Belmar: it's, see Yeah. But you

[00:28:47] Jeff Roster: got, you're telling me you're gonna try to do and you don't know their business and that's the point you're making and that's valuable.

[00:28:52] Jeff Roster: Really ,

[00:28:53] Ron Thurston: I asked that question often a management

[00:28:55] Ricardo Belmar: candidates, I, I was gonna

[00:28:57] Ron Thurston: say office was right here in Times Square. There six intermix [00:29:00]stores in the city. Tell me the story you were in last, the, the question could end. Yeah. You know, very quickly. Yeah. And so you're right. It's like, do your homework. Learn what's necessary, learn what's important, and then help, right.

[00:29:15] Ron Thurston: Help us be better because of it.

[00:29:18] Ricardo Belmar: Right. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think that question is so powerful as to your point, Romi, I've used that myself being on the vendor side in a meeting with a group of retail executives, or I've asked them, well, more from a wanting to learn perspective, I said, well, tell me about your store.

[00:29:34] Ricardo Belmar: Tell me the last time you were in a store and what you thought were the biggest challenges. And I was always surprised. Half the time I asked that question, I couldn't get an answer because I was, had a room full of people who couldn't remember the last time they had walked to their own stores. Yeah. So I think that's one, to me, it was one of the most simplest basic things that everybody in the industry can do is just, you know, go visit the store.

[00:29:56] Jeff Roster: See what's going on. Ask the people that are there, what's going wrong. So simple. Right, [00:30:00] right. It's so, sounds

[00:30:00] Ron Thurston: so simple. Simple, simple.

[00:30:01] Ricardo Belmar: You know? Well we, we heard some examples today, right? Right. From in one of the sessions from, from Sharon. Yeah, true. From the undercover. Undercover boss. Yeah. Get to

[00:30:09] Vicki Cantrell: the source.

[00:30:10] Vicki Cantrell: It's that simple. And

[00:30:12] Ron Thurston: maybe it's not in New York City. Go, you know, as I have traveled across the country this year, I, I would be confident to say a lot of those stores in the heartland of this country have never been visited by an executive. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Guarantee it. Yes. And so maybe get out of la, New York.

[00:30:32] Ron Thurston: Right. And don't just visit the flagship stores, the low volume. Yeah. Not just flag low volume and look for those opportunities Yeah. That are available just by asking questions.

[00:30:44] Ricardo Belmar: Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I think there'll be a lot of those questions hopefully be asked over the next few days. Yeah. .

[00:30:51] Jeff Roster: So what do you think the big buzzwords for the show are gonna be?

[00:30:55] Ricardo Belmar: Oh, that's a great question, Jeff. You know, every [00:31:00] nrf I I come to, it seems in recent years though, we start with, I'm sure this is the year every vendor's gonna talk about ai. Mm-hmm. , I, I still kind of chuckle a little bit. I forget which year it was, when it seemed like every time I turn around the expo floor, there was a booth with a robot in it.

[00:31:12] Ricardo Belmar: And, and now I want to kind of walk through and say, where did all the robots go? Yeah. , they're working, they're in the stores. Apparently working, I guess maybe. I don't know. Oh, I don't know. I mean, I, I'm actually kind of interested to see what the buzzy words are going to be this time. You know, we we're kind of coming out of a year where the first half of the year, the big buzz was all about Metaverse.

[00:31:31] Ricardo Belmar: Mm-hmm. . I don't, I don't expect that to be the one. I think there'll be some, I mean, I, I still expect to see some web three discussion maybe. I think there's definitely gonna be a lot of, maybe new applications. I'll, I'll put it that way, to ai, you know, certainly things talking about pricing, I think that's a, a big.

[00:31:48] Ricardo Belmar: Discussion

[00:31:49] Vicki Cantrell: seems to be a lot of conversation

[00:31:50] Ricardo Belmar: around pricing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I expect to hear a lot about returns management. Yeah. Just given where we're at, you know, that being a, you know what, that solution that I

[00:31:59] Jeff Roster: agree a [00:32:00] hundred percent. Yeah. Um, just because it's so unsexy, but it's, you know, returns are where profits go to die.

[00:32:09] Jeff Roster: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. And yet, if we're gonna talk about being sustainable, I mean the, probably the least sustainable process on the planet is returns. Just you ship that thing 8,000 miles or however you process it, you got it out and it's coming back and it's coming back in a far be worse condition than it left.

[00:32:25] Jeff Roster: And it is a mess. Yeah. And you're touching it again. And every time you touch, you're hanging another dollar on that thing. Yeah. Yeah. So if we can figure. how, and, and there were some great conversations today, like, you know, maybe we need to deselect some customers and I, you know, if we're gonna be serious about being sustainable.

[00:32:42] Jeff Roster: Yeah. Why are you returning so much? Right. Is it an issue with sizing, which it clearly is. Yep. Is there technology f uh, solutions? They're, they're starting to become some mm-hmm. , you know, AI models and, and 3D models and all that stuff. I mean, there's a lot of things that we can look at, but if somehow we can say, how do we, you know, how do we not [00:33:00] return 50% or 60% of stuff?

[00:33:02] Jeff Roster: That's a huge issue. Yeah, that's a huge one.

[00:33:04] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah.

[00:33:04] Jeff Roster: Um, so I love that. So we're returns, I, I'm have my debate with you a little bit on Metaverse. We'll have to settle up afterwards, but I'm much more of a fan of a immersive commerce, which our

[00:33:13] Ricardo Belmar: friend Michael Zur, his, his and I, I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:16] Jeff Roster: So we can, we can talk about, uh, we can talk about augmented reality.

[00:33:20] Jeff Roster: Yeah. And not talk about, you know, getting the virtual reality.

[00:33:23] Ricardo Belmar: No. Crazy. I'll tell you, I, I, Concede one point on, on Metaverse. Cause I think at least I'm getting one. You'll get one today. Ask me again at the end, at the end of I'll, my, I know you'll I'll, I know you'll keep, you'll hold me to that. I would say the, the one, because I know there are sessions about this, so that, that's why I'm gonna bring it up.

[00:33:39] Ricardo Belmar: And I've already talked to some folks about it and I know I see it with our customers, with the partners I work with. One really strong use case for Metaverse is digital twins. Um, especially with, uh, the consumer goods brands that we work with there, there's lots and lots of interest in that because you can just have, if you build the digital twin, right, you have your entire [00:34:00] operations modeled that you can play around with.

[00:34:03] Ricardo Belmar: Come up with new operations, new products without ever having to touch anything physical and incur the cost for that. And you'll know upfront, now I've built it in that digital twin. Now I know what the outcome's gonna be before I build version one. So I think that's in my mind, the most valid use case today.

[00:34:19] Ricardo Belmar: Today, cuz I know you're looking at me, Jeff, and, and you're thinking there's more to it than that, but Yes. Oh, I'm waiting. I'm trying. I know, I'm cheat on you're, I know you're waiting the pounce on me for that one, but I'm gonna say that's today's use case for metaverse. All the other ones I think, I don't know if it's this year, I think they'll come.

[00:34:34] Ricardo Belmar: I'll, I'll agree with you on that one. It's coming, but I don't know that it's, this

[00:34:36] Vicki Cantrell: year. This has, this is in that same category of how much you have to pay attention. You have to be paying attention. But c come where we are economically. Mm-hmm. And where we are, it's going to be, I'm going to pay attention and I'm, but I'm also understand that no bright, shiny objects.

[00:34:56] Vicki Cantrell: Right. Okay. That's where it is still, you know, [00:35:00] it's still

[00:35:00] Ricardo Belmar: that, but you get some of the core pieces. I think that to me is the, the key for some of these. And that's why I keep bringing up the digital. You need the same core pieces. You need the pieces. Right. You need that fundamental infrastructure and

[00:35:10] Jeff Roster: that's why immersive so you can build on, that's why immersive commerce is a superior word that to metaverse.

[00:35:14] Jeff Roster: Cuz you can get those pieces and you can kind of loop it. Cuz we, as analysts, we have to have something to hang that framework on. Cause we gotta study, we gotta survey it, we gotta forecast it. You ain't forecasted metaverse cause that's nonsense. Right? Right. Um, oh, it's a 22 trillion. Okay, I picked what, it's ridiculous.

[00:35:30] Jeff Roster: What's that based on? But immersive commerce, you can break out ai, well you can break out AI foundation, you can break out virtual reality. Mm-hmm. , augmented reality, all these components and now you can build, right? Right. You can build a deal and I think that's probably a far better way for us to talk about it.

[00:35:43] Jeff Roster: And there's absolutely zero energy, pro or con around that word. Yeah. And, uh, you know, unfortunately, I think the guy out in my, part of the, the, you know, states maybe kind of mucked up that word just a little bit. , I won't say who, just a little local, but,

[00:35:59] Ricardo Belmar: um, but remaining [00:36:00] anonymous to

[00:36:00] Jeff Roster: protect you. So we'll have to, we'll have to, we'll have to square up, but I'm, I'm thinking augmented reality.

[00:36:05] Jeff Roster: Mm-hmm. We've had it, we've had it in aviation for 20 years. Uh, yeah. I, I've trained in simulator, so the, the pieces are not there. And I'll tell you the other thing that's the most interesting about this thing is not so much what Nike's doing in whatever the, whatever the virtual reality world they're doing.

[00:36:19] Jeff Roster: I think the best example is what Alta Cosmetics is doing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um,

[00:36:23] Ricardo Belmar: and

[00:36:24] Jeff Roster: Roblox, they've got, and with Roblox and they've got a lot of young girls with moms playing mm-hmm. In what Sure. Sounds like a metaverse thing. So now you've taken it away from the boys playing world at war. Now you've gone, you know, a far bigger thing and there's clearly value there.

[00:36:39] Jeff Roster: Yeah. And so that, that's when I heard that story. And it's actually even a better story than that for to share. But, um, That's telling me, okay, now we've, now we've got something. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:51] Ron Thurston: And Alta such a great story in every way, in every way because it's accessible. You see it in, you know, hundreds of locations, right?

[00:36:59] Ron Thurston: You see it all [00:37:00] over the country. You have a very in-store touch feel, experience it as you want. You have a metaverse, digital immersive version of it. I think that's, that's what great retail is. It's that incredibly immersive way to think about it. However you choose to experience

[00:37:17] Jeff Roster: it. There you go. And that's the point where you're not taking this entire heavy vision and you're just taking out the pieces.

[00:37:23] Jeff Roster: I mean, you look at like the smart mirrors that they're doing, where they're actually, they've actually invested in a, in an AI startup to be able to analyze skin. It sort of started off as almost as a medical Yeah. Uh, strategy that to determine skin cancers. Yeah. And all of a sudden, hey, well you know what, if we analyze skin, then we can better, you know, this is obviously not my area of expertise, but, uh, I paid for a lot of this stuff with a daughter and a wife, , but.

[00:37:44] Jeff Roster: I mean, that's heavy duty technology Yeah. To involved in that business. And the other thing why I just love having Alta on, on the pod is they have an investment fund. Yes. Okay. We're not talking about Walmart or Amazon. Now we're talking and, and [00:38:00] they're not a small retailer. I mean, they're over 8 billion.

[00:38:02] Jeff Roster: So they're high, you know, they're not a high, they're a major tier one player, but they've set up an investment firm so they could, they can go invest in the startup community for, for technologies that are appropriate to their business. And they've already made some acquisitions. And now, so, you know, the problem I've always had is an analyst using Walmart.

[00:38:18] Jeff Roster: And now Amazon is an example. Everyone says, oh, you giving permission people not to pay attention. Oh, I'm not Walmart, I'm not Amazon. Well $2 billion retailer, you afford billion, you can do this. Or if you don't understand, somebody else is right. And that's, you know, we're in the business of being in business.

[00:38:35] Jeff Roster: And so innovation, how you look at it, that needs to be in a mindset. Now, I'm not saying spend top dollar, but I am saying, Start thinking about your business differently. Right. And most importantly, and this goes back to a bus ride, I don't know if you remember in Honduras where we talked, started talking about the era of an intentional innovation.

[00:38:52] Vicki Cantrell: Uh, that

[00:38:52] Jeff Roster: absolutely right . Absolutely right. Yeah. That was mid, that was more than a few goons ago. Yes. But, uh, I remember you and I were sitting there just kind of going back and forth and I [00:39:00] was just expressing my frustration that the fact that retailers never ever wanted to talk about the mistakes they made from a technology perspective is, is an analyst.

[00:39:08] Jeff Roster: That was so difficult because that's how we learned. Well, and then you said, you know, appropriately so well, no one wanted to, you know, seem like they failed. And then, you know, being a gardener and having colleagues in my direct practice that were in other verticals, when I would share that with them, they'd say, are you crazy?

[00:39:22] Jeff Roster: Our greatest successes in manufacturing were failures. That's right. In theory. I mean, the 3M example of, uh, of um, uh, yellow, uh, stick it notes that was Post-its Yes. PostIts, that was like a failed glue experiment that, uh, that a guy that was in a choir wanted to be able to have some kind of a glue that he would stick so he could have his notes for, for singing and Oh, that.

[00:39:43] Jeff Roster: Glue that didn't work was perfect. We're, we're one of the few industries that don't celebrate, or at least didn't celebrate our failures. Yeah. And that I think needs to change. Interesting. And so if I can get retail, senior retail leadership to say, you guys have to push the envelope. Yeah. Yeah. And you have to be [00:40:00] Okay.

[00:40:00] Jeff Roster: Now don't break the bank by failing, but fail fast, which is in Silicon Valley, we live by that, right? Yeah, yeah. Fail fast.

[00:40:07] Vicki Cantrell: Yep. You know, it's different now. The mindset is different now. Before there was a fear of that because it always touched the customer. And the customer was delicate. Now today's customer.

[00:40:19] Vicki Cantrell: Very different. Today's customer lives, breathes and sleeps and eats with just mess. Mm-hmm. in, in, in every retail experience in every restaurant. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Life schools, right. Education, politics, they live in a mess. Okay. So they are going to, and they don't make decisions about where they shop and who they shop with based on whether it was a per perfect experience.

[00:40:47] Vicki Cantrell: Mm-hmm. . Right. They make it for different reasons. So again, you know, hate to beat a dead horse after 40 years of beating a dead horse. . It starts with the customer. Yeah. And it's not about the customer who's walking in your [00:41:00] store. Right. It's about understand the. what is happening to this human these days?

[00:41:06] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah. What is their life like? What is their family like? Understand them and then apply your brand to it. Not, here's my brand. Where do I find a person who will like that could not have been warm? No, it's never been that way. But nobody, it just, it takes a long time to get that. And now the consumer, as they always do, is forcing mm-hmm.

[00:41:27] Vicki Cantrell: that so they are messier so the retailer can be messier and be forgiven. Mm-hmm. . And when the retailer says I was messy, I'm sorry. Have at it.

[00:41:39] Jeff Roster: That's great. Isn't that a better customer experience? I'll, I'll, I'll go an expert. Yeah. If I as a, if I as a retailer make a mistake, but then I fix it, isn't that better than Yes.

[00:41:48] Jeff Roster: To that customer? Because then they, that's one that's, they perceive value in that they perceived honesty cuz it is in fact being honest. and you have a, you have a better, I think you have a better experience. You

[00:41:58] Ron Thurston: do. It's authenticity. [00:42:00] And I would say the customer appreciates it, but so does the store team.

[00:42:04] Ron Thurston: The store team knows when you've done maybe not the right thing. So if the company comes, senior leadership comes back and said, you know what? We screwed up. We did make the right decision. We didn't spend money where we should have, and this is what we're gonna do differently. What that creates is retention for the store teams, which is probably another R word, along with the recession word, which I think will also come up this week.

[00:42:27] Ron Thurston: Mm-hmm. . Um, I think employee, employee retention. I know I'm host, I'm, I'm doing, um, um, a panel tomorrow on that. I think this idea of what do brands need to do to hire, retain, and attract great talent. Yeah. It's, it's another 40 year like dead horse. To your point, Vicky, that you and I have been having this conversation also for many years, but it's.

[00:42:51] Ron Thurston: It's actually never been more important. Yeah. And it's really hard to say that in 2023. It's critical. Yeah. It's, it, it will make or break the [00:43:00] future of any brand not retaining their talent.

[00:43:03] Vicki Cantrell: Funny how it has to do with people still all still after all this

[00:43:06] Ricardo Belmar: still, it always comes back. Always comes back down to people.

[00:43:08] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah. Which is goods

[00:43:10] Jeff Roster: really good. It's, it's really goods.

[00:43:11] Ricardo Belmar: It's really, but it's messy. I love Vicky's

[00:43:14] Ron Thurston: word. Yeah. You know what's, it's messy because managing humans is messy. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard. And which is also why I believe many people don't want to talk about it because it's really hard. Yeah.

[00:43:24] Ron Thurston: Yeah. And it's emotional. And there's, that emotion is bigger than ever. So that the ability to. People in an inspiring way has never been harder. Yeah.

[00:43:36] Jeff Roster: Yeah. You know what I like about that phrase, messy is, you know, one of the, one of the Metaverse technologies or uh, one of the immersive immersive commerce technologies technologies is live streaming.

[00:43:48] Jeff Roster: And now it's a done deal. It's a done deal in China, it's a done deals pack. And we just think we're now beginning to experiment with it. My only worry about that is if we try to over [00:44:00] overproduce the live streams and I'll, the example I'll point to is B NH photo. Yeah. So B n H photo, uh, a lot of this equipment is for BH photo.

[00:44:09] Jeff Roster: As I look around for folks that dunno who that is, it's just literally the best, uh, camera shop in the planet, I would argue. Um, and it's people are passionate. They're, the salespeople are exactly everyone. You would want them to be passionate about the product, use the product for our photographers. And so when you go in, you have this amazing experience.

[00:44:30] Jeff Roster: Well, I used to, you know, cause I live in California and there, there's only one store and that's in, right here in Manhattan. Um, you used to have to call in, which was okay. And then they started doing text chat, which is actually okay, cuz then they could send links. Well, somebody said, why don't we just put a ca or a camera store, put it in, put a camera in there,

[00:44:47] Jeff Roster: And the first one I did was like two years or whatever it was. And it was not a good, I mean, it was a great experience, but it was not a fancy, I mean, it was like, this is not a great stream. But the content was great, easy. And [00:45:00] I'm like, this is fantastic. The guy's showing me this, he's, he's pulling out a $3,000 camera lens and a 10,000, uh, Kathy, I put that one back.

[00:45:07] Jeff Roster: Okay. I didn't buy that one. And then he brought over a cheaper way. And I'm like, I'm like, this is crazy. And then, you know, Michael Sakura comes into your, your, uh, clubhouse and then he starts talking about what's happening in Asia Pack. Mm-hmm. And I said, oh, that's novel. Like, why don't we look east? And then I go, wow.

[00:45:22] Jeff Roster: Okay. Yeah. So my only worry about that is if we try to make it too, If we overproduce it, I think was the word I was looking for. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just, just let it be authentic. Let it be

[00:45:33] Vicki Cantrell: messy, authentic, messy. Let it be. And, and you were the

[00:45:36] Jeff Roster: one Vicky at, when you were at Tori Birch, I think you were talking about, you weren't at, at some conference, you were talking about like a, a fashion show or something you did, where you had nutty response, I mean, crazy responses, right?

[00:45:48] Jeff Roster: Yes.

[00:45:48] Vicki Cantrell: Because we, we did this test where we had such brand advocates. Oh yeah. Okay. And it was Path, I can't remember the name of it, but anyway, we went out [00:46:00] to our customers. Yeah. And we made them part of the process. Novel idea, here's four buttons, which one do you like? You like, I like that one. And they feel so in the know.

[00:46:12] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah. Look, people again, when I, I, I just bang that drum about, it's about people. It's about people, and it's about c. They belong to a commute. People wanna belong. That's what they want. Right. Whatever it is, two people, 10 people, 5,000 people, and they became part of an insider community by being asked their opinion.

[00:46:33] Vicki Cantrell: Mm-hmm. It was extremely powerful, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so it's,

[00:46:37] Jeff Roster: yeah, I've never, I've never forgotten that story.

[00:46:40] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Yeah. And just so I'll add on to that with one interesting point from one of the sessions today, from the, uh, the gmu consumer study that, that, uh, Gotham has been on the show many times.

[00:46:51] Ricardo Belmar: Preview today.

[00:46:52] Jeff Roster: I haven't got him on my show yet. I dunno. Jeff,

[00:46:55] Ricardo Belmar: man, I dunno. You, I can, I can probably help you with Yeah, maybe Vicki can pull some strings for you, Jeff, and get 'em on [00:47:00] your show. But he's, he's kind been a regular, maybe that would happen. Wow. That might be it. . But he,

[00:47:06] Jeff Roster: Ron this is full

[00:47:07] Ron Thurston: contents.

[00:47:09] Ron Thurston: He gives my book to his students.

[00:47:10] Ricardo Belmar: He likes me. That's right. Yeah. , you go. So I think you, you've missed the boat on that one somehow, Jeff. Yeah. Yeah. So, but he did mention, uh, he had one of those points, if you remember, on, on the data he previewed about, uh, consumer pain points about having a, a, a story associate that wasn't helpful.

[00:47:27] Ricardo Belmar: It just wasn't around Right. When they wanted them to be. Right. Right. That was, and the reason I bring that one up is because, you know, you, you've been saying this now for. Half of our recorded time, Mickey, about the, that messy connection. Mm-hmm. . Right. And I think, Ron, you may remember, we've talked about this before with that store associate being the live streamer.

[00:47:45] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Because they're the one that has the connection with the customers that shop at that store, which is exactly Jeff's story with B and h. Right. Because you, you know that store. Yep. , you are a passionate fan Oh yeah. Of that store. I'm a fanboy official fan. So how could they not [00:48:00] get you to buy something through a live stream showing you what it is, what the product is when you can't be there in the store to physically touch it?

[00:48:07] Ricardo Belmar: So I think that that, and it doesn't have to be overproduced

[00:48:10] Jeff Roster: Exactly. No. To be That's but knowable because it's people working with people. Exactly, yes. And that's key. That's, I'm, I'm, I'm, you've gotta tweet out that term messy. If not, I'm stealing it because we need to make that Yeah, the standard. Don't screw this up.

[00:48:25] Jeff Roster: Right. Don't overproduce, sorry. Digital media folks, don't overproduce this. Perfect.

[00:48:30] Vicki Cantrell: Is the enemy

[00:48:32] Jeff Roster: of the above good of the good. Make it clean, make it authentic. Make it

[00:48:36] Ricardo Belmar: honest. And I think the best proof point, and we were all talking about this before the mics were on, about how many people that we run into on the second day that we're here, that we all felt like we're talking to them for about 10, 15 minutes until suddenly you realize this is the first time we're meeting in person

[00:48:51] Ricardo Belmar: Because you've only ever seen each other on Zoom calls and teams calls, and all these we're always just bit of square on a screen. But we've done this for so long now we feel like we have. [00:49:00] This existing connection. It's true. And, and now we're in person. It's true. But you know, like Ron, we, we hadn't met in person before until last night.

[00:49:07] Ricardo Belmar: Last night. Until last night. Mm-hmm. . So that's to me is the proof point, right? Yes. That, you know, that kind of a, I'll call it sounds negative, but I don't mean it to be negative. Yes. Low production value livestream because it's authentic and Right. It's messy.

[00:49:21] Vicki Cantrell: Right. That's why there's such tremendous buzz.

[00:49:23] Vicki Cantrell: Now that you say that, that's what I'm thinking. It's a combination of seeing the people you've known forever and being so thrilled. Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. to see that person. Yeah. And at the same exact time, seeing a bunch of people that you've never seen in real life, only digitally. So you have this like, information overload, right?

[00:49:43] Vicki Cantrell: Yes, that's true. I have a, a statement I used to say, like, when we were trying to implement systems quickly and let's get it done, I used to say, don't worry, be crappy. Mm-hmm. . Okay, . And so, so now we could say, don't worry, be crappy. because it's [00:50:00] authentic. Yeah, it's true. And add

[00:50:01] Ron Thurston: the authenticness. Authentics a good word

[00:50:03] Ricardo Belmar: for sure.

[00:50:03] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, it is.

[00:50:04] Ron Thurston: Yeah. I think the challenge though, with some of that, that I've seen is it's just sometimes one more thing for the store to do. Yeah. So I actually think part of the conversation this week I'd like to hear is, what are you taking out? Yes. Not what are you

[00:50:19] Ricardo Belmar: adding to?

[00:50:20] Ron Thurston: Because it's, they've been asked to do Bopa.

[00:50:22] Ron Thurston: They've been asked to actually do more returns from web. They've been asked sometimes then to livestream. They've been asked to chat from the website. Mm-hmm. , they've been asked to do many different things in stores. Yeah. What are you taking away so that the store can be that much better? What can you handle maybe in the office?

[00:50:39] Ron Thurston: How do you use staffing in a different way? Right. How do you hire people just to do livestream? Yeah. You know? So there's a lot of different ways, but adding more because you're in love with the new technology and the store like. What the hell?

[00:50:52] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah. Sharon made such a good point about that today. Oh, she did?

[00:50:55] Vicki Cantrell: Yeah, she said she did. You just don't realize that you're, that you're kind of piling [00:51:00] on. Okay. Right. And you know when it's cumulative, when you get to, um, economic hard times and people are being laid off, this, one of my least favorite sayings in the world is do more with less. Mm-hmm. , okay. Mm-hmm. . And I've always said, no, that's not what you transition to.

[00:51:17] Vicki Cantrell: What do you, you do less with less is what you do, because there's always something to give up that does not hurt you. You just aren't thinking. Mm-hmm. , you're not having innovation of thought. Okay? Mm-hmm. , you're not looking at those things. Those ham theory things that. . Oh, why do you do that? Because I've always done it.

[00:51:36] Vicki Cantrell: So do less with less. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. .

[00:51:38] Ron Thurston: And if you have less, maybe your budget is different in 2023. Right. What are your most important priorities? Exactly. Yeah. That are great for your team and great for your customer. And maybe you can't have everything you always dreamed of. Mm-hmm. . Maybe this is not the year for it.

[00:51:51] Ron Thurston: Right. And that's okay. It's okay. Yeah. But you should still come to an NRF show, learn what's happening. To your point, Jeff. Mm-hmm. don't be one of those brands that [00:52:00] didn't pay attention and we're seeing the news, those that are not making it right. They didn't pay attention. So pay attention. , but maybe you don't execute everything in 2023.

[00:52:10] Ron Thurston: Right, right. And I think it's a thought process that I'm not sure all retailers do. Yeah. I think they come here sometimes looking for that, all the ideas, and then want to execute

[00:52:20] Ricardo Belmar: all of them. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:21] Jeff Roster: You know, Ron, you're the only voice in this industry for the store associate. I, I'm trying to think of, right.

[00:52:26] Jeff Roster: Is there anybody out there that would've just said what you just said? And the answer is no. I never would've said it because it it, I mean, I'm not a, I, I grew up in a store. I, well, I grew up with a World War II combat veteran father who would say you were absolutely do more with less because I did during the Great Depression.

[00:52:44] Jeff Roster: But he's not the most scalable person. So you're the only voice that's really even speaking to that. And how important is that? What can you take off the plate? Because it's just,

[00:52:54] Ron Thurston: it's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. And it, it doesn't always mean that you want to do less. [00:53:00] Sometimes you need to do more or just Right.

[00:53:01] Ron Thurston: But I think it's, it, it's that point earlier, listen, learn. What does the customer asking for? What does the team need? Mm-hmm. . And then make a decision based on what you've heard, not the other way around. Right. Right. Don't come to a conference call or to a, a big video call and say, guess what? I went to NRF and we're going into the Metaverse and you have, please don't say that.

[00:53:22] Ron Thurston: 300 stores on the call going, okay, I can't even be on this call right now because I need to go ring some customers up. I think there's this Please don't sometimes like misconception. Yeah. Um, and thank you for saying that, Jeff. I just think that's

[00:53:36] Jeff Roster: true. I just, it's just you're such an important voice out there and you're the only voice out there.

[00:53:41] Jeff Roster: Yeah.

[00:53:42] Ron Thurston: Yeah. And which is odd to me, you know, as someone just because I, I came from stores, but if 80% of your revenue, you know, comes to store Right. Right. 80% of the conversation should be about store. Yeah. In my opinion. Yeah. And it's not, it's not always the sexiest part and it's

[00:53:58] Ricardo Belmar: the hardest part. You know

[00:53:59] Jeff Roster: what?[00:54:00]

[00:54:00] Jeff Roster: Yeah. I have never thought of that before. Yeah. Because I'm willing to bet. in technology, 60 to 70% of the conversations around e-commerce, because it's all technology driven. Right? Yeah. I, I, I don't know how we would analyze that, but it's gotta be that case. I've never thought about it in that regards before and

[00:54:18] Ron Thurston: most of those people don't come from stores.

[00:54:20] Ron Thurston: Right. So I think that there's this sometimes, you know, and I do believe in this, I'm sure Vicki would back me up. Sometimes there's a lack of knowledge about the store, because if you don't come from the store, you're uncomfortable in the environment. Yes. You actually don't know what questions to ask.

[00:54:36] Vicki Cantrell: And you think it's easier than it, than it is.

[00:54:38] Vicki Cantrell: It's

[00:54:38] Ron Thurston: exactly right. Right. So I would host often, you know, executive teams or I would say to the office here in Times Square, I'm gonna be in Madison Avenue every Tuesday morning at 9:00 AM before you come in, meet me at the store to 150 people in the office. Right, right. I'll be there every day. I will answer all of your questions.

[00:54:55] Ron Thurston: I will walk you through the store. Uh, you don't have to do anything except listen to the team [00:55:00] and I'll lead the conversation. I could, buyers, planners, finance it, everybody, my my own store team would come and listen and learn. But I did all the work for them. Cuz what happens when people go into stores, they don't actually know what questions to ask.

[00:55:15] Ron Thurston: Not a clue. Right? They don't know. It's, how's your business? Well, read the flash. You don't need me to do that. So I think that there's this almost fear. Yeah, there's a fear of the store. Yeah. Mm-hmm. that I'm personally trying to break down.

[00:55:30] Jeff Roster: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what's funny about that? So I, I really, a once I left my dad's operation and went up to college, um, I really was never in the stores, but I was in distribution and what do we have every year?

[00:55:40] Jeff Roster: Distribution. We had a thing called inventory. Inventory. And guess what we used to get to get, oh, we got all the people from the front office coming. Help us and guess what we did about three days after Unfixed or fix all the help. So I, I was just thinking that, you know, I could really relate to that. But last thing you wanna see is, hey, we're [00:56:00] from the upfront office,

[00:56:00] Ron Thurston: we're here to help.

[00:56:01] Ron Thurston: No, they, they very proud that they work in stores on Black Friday. Exactly.

[00:56:04] Jeff Roster: Very proud Cossi turmoil.

[00:56:09] Ron Thurston: No, it's true.

[00:56:10] Jeff Roster: Yeah. Let's put people, uh, in a high stress environment where everyone's on edge. Right? Oh, it's funny. Yeah. It's so funny. . Yeah.

[00:56:19] Ricardo Belmar: Yay. Well, I, I'm gonna throw out one last thing for us to get some opinions on, because maybe the, the final piece that I think we are going to hear more about, because the couple of conferences I've been to last year, this came up, uh, and it's been a pattern and a trend, and that's retailers doing more B2B kind of services than just selling to consumers to, because it.

[00:56:42] Ricardo Belmar: Goes, right. You know, it's high margin activity helps with the revenue. Might not be a lot, certainly not in the kind of com transactional volume you get from your stores, but taking things that you're good at as a retailer, bundling them up, selling it to other retailers. I'm seeing a lot of that. I, I think I, I have to believe we're gonna [00:57:00] hear and see a good amount of, of noise about and buzz about that at NRF this week.

[00:57:06] Vicki Cantrell: I think that, uh, there's a couple themes there that, that play into that, okay, first of all, it's, this is the best industry in the world and the most resilient and the most creative, and the most agile because you are dealing with that customer and every day is different. For a retailer, every day is different.

[00:57:26] Vicki Cantrell: I don't know how else to say it, it's the truth, right? So since every day is different for, uh, a retailer, okay, in this world, Nobody is doing anything by themselves. You can't be successful by yourself. This is why I talk about partnerships, right? Because what we've seen is the tech world coming together, spot solutions.

[00:57:52] Vicki Cantrell: Let me add on to this. I can help you look at the partner networks. They've grown and grown and grown like crazy, right? Right. Yeah. [00:58:00] And, and same thing with people thinking more partnership oriented. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . I've just gotten to the point where no one can do it alone. Yeah. And they shouldn't. Yeah. And I think that is at the, that's what's coming from of this is look, if I can't build it, Let's go find it.

[00:58:15] Vicki Cantrell: Let's work together. Right. So yeah,

[00:58:18] Jeff Roster: I would agree with that. Yeah. Well, I've always said, I think technology and retail is much more expensive than it needs to be because everything is competitive advantage, so we can't share anything. So everything has to be custom developed. You don't see that in other verticals.

[00:58:29] Jeff Roster: Yeah. And manufacturing, they're all, I mean, the CEOs are all engineers. You're right. I mean, they just, they just like, okay, if, if we all design a better drill rig, let's just compete on who can get the, you know, raw materials to market. Let's not compete on, hey, I've got a, you know, a unique drill thing. Yeah.

[00:58:45] Jeff Roster: It's just, it's crazy when I, when I used to try to explain how retail operated inside my Gartner colleagues in other verticals, it was like they would look at us like, you are out of your minds, . You are outta your minds. [00:59:00] Wow. And I get why we are, I mean, in some ways, because we, I mean we are the, the, we saw it in March and April of 2020, how.

[00:59:11] Jeff Roster: Thin the line of civilization is, it's one, it's one grocery, uh, supply chain. And if that supply chain would've crumbled, if, if the truckers would've said, Hey, listen, everyone's cutting and running and we're gonna cut and run too, we'd be, we'd be having a different conversation right now. Yeah, yeah. Um, but, you know, let's just, let's just maybe compete on doing better business and not necessarily on, I've designed conveyor some ways, you know, super unique.

[00:59:37] Jeff Roster: We'd be a better industry if we would do that. We'd, we'd be buying technology at a cheaper rate for sure. Yes. Yes.

[00:59:42] Ron Thurston: And I would argue that we're much more similar than we are different, of course, in many ways. And I think that's also often missed that everyone thinks that their business is so special.

[00:59:52] Ron Thurston: Yeah. It's not. And they're not. You might, you sell something different. Yeah. But the core of actually how this industry operates is [01:00:00] not that different. And I do think we have to be more open to learn, open to listen. Open to, you're right. Maybe it's, I I buy it instead of developing it. Right. I don't hire someone.

[01:00:10] Ron Thurston: Right. Or you do it in a popup and I learn Right. How to do it uniquely. But I do think we, we ha there's something, I don't know, Jeff, if you agree, there's something that we feel in this industry for every brand I've worked for, that no one does it as well as we do. No, a hundred percent we're the best at it.

[01:00:26] Ron Thurston: And therefore I'm not gonna share my secrets. Exactly. And I, and the keys, I'd like to like break that

[01:00:31] Ricardo Belmar: down a little bit. They're

[01:00:32] Jeff Roster: not secrets though, that's the thing. , it's, it's like the, you know, it's like, what is it? Uh, the emperor has no clothes. I mean, come on. It's, it's software. It's true. The people that benefit from that, and I, it's a bit heresy cuz these are some of my clients, but it's the consultancies who, who get, get, have gotten away with, you know, mass customization.

[01:00:49] Jeff Roster: And so if we could just absorb technology, and by the way, a lot of software companies say, listen, just accept code at. , you know, you, you'll drive the cost down, we'll be able to refresh. You know, [01:01:00] so it's, it's that whole mind

[01:01:01] Vicki Cantrell: shift look, remember people are always gonna protect their turf. Yeah. A hundred percent.

[01:01:05] Vicki Cantrell: Right? And you think, not, not just from a brand perspective, but think about the infrastructure that's inside retail where you have the heads of departments. Okay. And, and when we tried to break down those silos okay, and get the communities to work together, cuz they have to do that to, to, to have a great business, it's, people are very protective about their, whatever it is.

[01:01:30] Vicki Cantrell: Unique knowledge, their unique knowledge, their power, their salary, their, you know, it's, it just goes to your core. And again, when you understand the person, you can deal with it in a, in a better way. But that's, you know, where that comes from is the protection of. not what's mine. And, and then I've seen where each person thinks about it differently.

[01:01:52] Vicki Cantrell: A marketer's gonna be extremely protective. Mm-hmm. a digital person is much more open and free about, so [01:02:00] how you were raised in the industry is really affects how you react to these. That's true. And how you are seeing all the groups together, they all have, CIOs have a very different personality. I'm not saying anything up or down, I'm just saying mm-hmm.

[01:02:15] Vicki Cantrell: they all have a different personalities. Right. That's fair. They're all totally valid and why, and reason of how they grew up in the industry and now they're all, they, everybody has to work together. Yeah. So it's, you're getting to the core of humanity. Hmm. Wow. That's

[01:02:32] Ron Thurston: deep.

[01:02:35] Ricardo Belmar: It is

[01:02:36] Jeff Roster: and it's solely day two

[01:02:38] Jeff Roster: That's

[01:02:38] Ricardo Belmar: true. And we're just getting started. Yeah, but

[01:02:41] Jeff Roster: we're just getting started.

[01:02:42] Ricardo Belmar: That is probably a good place to wrap it up. What do you think, Jeff? Fantastic. I think so. Good way to kick off our series. I think so.

[01:02:47] Jeff Roster: Some of us have a San Francisco 49ers game to go watch. Yes.

[01:02:51] Some

[01:02:52] Vicki Cantrell: of us have to go to the next thing.

[01:02:54] Ricardo Belmar: Yes, that's right. We do. That's right. There's a lot of next things for the next few days, . Well, Vicky, [01:03:00] Ron, thanks so much for joining Jeff and myself to kick off this series. I can't think of two better people. We could. Asked to join us for a great retail

[01:03:07] Jeff Roster: conversation. This was very fun. We need Ricardo. We need like a little mini Ron podcast studio we can tow around with.

[01:03:14] Jeff Roster: That's right. Like a little four foot wide Airstream

[01:03:18] Ricardo Belmar: to go.

[01:03:19] Ron Thurston: It's more glamorous than this little conference

[01:03:20] Ricardo Belmar: room.

[01:03:22] Jeff Roster: I, gosh, Ron, you, I can't see an Airstream. I, every Airstream I see, I think of you. And there's an Airstream dealership in Morgan Hill too. And I, every time I go by that I go Rod over there. . Good job, man.

[01:03:35] Jeff Roster: Thank you. Just good job. What you. Thank you. Well done. Yeah. Thank

[01:03:38] Ron Thurston: you very much. Well done. Thank you.

[01:03:40] Ricardo Belmar: Thank you, Ricardo. Thanks Jeff. Everybody, Jeff, until the next one? Yeah, day three, let's go. Great. Let's go.

[01:03:53] Casey Golden: Welcome back everyone. Damn, you didn't oversell that intro, Ricardo. [01:04:00] Killer discussion. I didn't even notice how long it was. It just had me wanting more and wishing I was in the room. .

[01:04:09] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah. Well, like I said, it's definitely getting my vote right now for best episode we've ever done. I mean, there, there, there's something to be said for capturing these kind of conversations in person, in a really small room among friends in just a completely open discussion.

[01:04:23] Ricardo Belmar: Well, I hope our listeners

[01:04:24] Casey Golden: and viewers enjoyed that. I know I did. I really wish I had been there. But next time.

[01:04:30] Ricardo Belmar: Next time, yep. And I'm, I'm sure this will not be the last time that you see this group get together for a chat. You can count on that and we'll, we'll, we'll, uh, bring them back for, for more in the future.

[01:04:41] Casey Golden: So for those of you paying attention, if you caught our other Rethink Retail friend in the background, well, if you've guessed it, Julia Raymond, you'd be right. Julia was watching through the glass outside the conference room, taking a few picks. I bet she didn't expect you guys would [01:05:00] be there so long either,

[01:05:03] Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, that's so true. That is so true. I'm sure she didn't think it would be quite that long. . Well, Casey, I think this wraps us up for the first part of our NRF Live mini-series. Indeed,

[01:05:14] Casey Golden: it does. Stay tuned everyone for the rest of the series and be sure to catch the fun not only on the podcast, but also this week in innovation hosted by Jeff Roster.

[01:05:26] Casey Golden: Ricardo, that's a wrap.

[01:05:33] Casey Golden: If you enjoyed the show, please consider giving us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcast. Remember to smash that subscribe button in your favorite podcast player so you don't miss a minute. Wanna know more about what we talked about today? Take a look at the show notes for handy links and more dates.

[01:05:51] Casey Golden: I'm your co-host Casey Golden,

[01:05:53] Ricardo Belmar: and if you'd like to learn more about us and stay connected, follow us on Twitter at KCC Golden and Ricardo underscore Belmar, or find [01:06:00] us on LinkedIn. Be sure and follow the show on Twitter, at Retail Razor, on LinkedIn, and on our YouTube channel for the latest updates and content.

[01:06:07] Ricardo Belmar: I'm your host, Ricardo Delmar. Thanks for

[01:06:09] Casey Golden: joining

[01:06:10] Jeff Roster: us.

[01:06:14] Ricardo Belmar: And remember, there's never been a better time to be in retail if you cut through the clutter. Until next time, this is the Retail Razor Show.

[01:06:35] Jeff Roster: Thanks for giving today's pod listen, and now a view. For more info, check out the show notes and please give us a five star rating, like and subscribe. As the kids say, it really helps us grow. If you'd like to be a guest, send me a note. We're always looking for innovative thought leaders and startups, really doing interesting things, and make sure to come back for next week's episode.