Brian Sathianathan, Co-Founder, on The Attention Economy
This Week in InnovationJune 02, 2022
30:1955.52 MB

Brian Sathianathan, Co-Founder, on The Attention Economy

On today's edition of This Week in Innovation Brian and I talk about the attention economy.

On today's edition of This Week in Innovation Brian and I talk about the attention economy.

Give it a listen and let us know what you think?

Podcast Hosts

Jeff Roster




Brian Sathianathan



Podcast Website




Listen Notes


[00:00:00] Jeff Roster: Hello everybody. And welcome to another edition of this week in innovation today. Brian and I are going to talk about the attention economy, Brian, how you doing today?

[00:00:08] Brian Sathianathan: Doing great. Jeff, how are you Jeff?

[00:00:11] Jeff Roster: Doing well? They're putting in fiber in the neighborhood. So if you hear a jackhammer, let me know, I'll go to mute, but that's exciting times for us.

[00:00:18] So hopefully I will have a super fast internet connection maybe in, in a couple of months or.

[00:00:23] Brian Sathianathan: That is awesome. Yeah, that is awesome. I do have five Iran, fiber all the way because of, a lot of the meetings that I do. And some of the, like the demos that I do sometimes is very bandwidth consuming.

[00:00:35] So yeah, I did it like a few months ago and it's really good. Yeah, ever since then, I get pretty good

[00:00:40] Jeff Roster: connectivity. Fantastic. Brian, today, you want to talk about the attention economy? What what does that mean?

[00:00:48] Brian Sathianathan: So basically the the idea about the attention economy is it's almost thinking about, a consumer or a user's attention, the time that he or she spends, say watching TV [00:01:00] are interacting with the product are, spending time on the internet. Looking at that whole concept as the human attention is a scar commodity. and it's, there is so much of it that you, one any human or any person has in a given day, right? You only have 24 hours and you probably spend 1820 hours being awake, right.

[00:01:26] Or maybe 16 hours, depending on how old you are and how young you are. So the question is it's a scare. The point is that it's a scarce commodity and within this scarce commodity, how. Can brands our well can websites, our well can products grab the attention of any human, right? Any user, any consumer.

[00:01:49] That's why this is interesting. So we are applying the traditional economic theories, right? That we apply to finance, or any other scarce commodity. And you apply that theory to [00:02:00]attention to the human attention. And that is what the attention economy is. So you've taken something that's very much an art or like something that evolved over a time and you've attached and applied scientific principle to it.

[00:02:12] And you treat it like a scarce commodity and value.

[00:02:17] Jeff Roster: Okay, so makes sense. When I started my career, there were there was cable and barely cable and there was. A few channels, there was radio and that was it. And now I've got two plus million podcasts. I can dig through 600 channels.

[00:02:35] Almost, unlimited streaming services. So that time that I spend as a consumer becomes incredibly valuable where I put it. And it's a precious resource to all these various. objects, interactions, things that are looking for my time. What what do you do with that then?

[00:02:54] Brian Sathianathan: I think it's about no, I think it's a great question. I think Jeff, I think it's all about understanding where [00:03:00] users are spending time and how it is broken down between the different avenues, the different channels. The different types of activities, and then the brands, as well as these content providers, or even retailers can figure out methodologies to create value, because essentially a user's attention is not free. So how do you create value within that time? So that, it becomes a transaction, both parties benefit.

[00:03:31] Jeff Roster: Okay. So if you're a retailer, what do you do? What do you do with a busy mom? Who's got all these, 2 million podcasts to pick from and 600 channels. How do you engage that person in this new

[00:03:42] Brian Sathianathan: world works well? That's a great, yeah, absolutely. Jeff. So maybe what I'll do is let me talk a little bit about how things are broken down, right?

[00:03:48] Between, traditional things like TV and others, and how. How the internet, as well as, content on the internet is, consuming that pie and that how that pie is [00:04:00] beginning to grow between the different sites. And then we'll go into retail. But I think I definitely want to talk about how retailers can leverage some of these things and learn.

[00:04:10] How the media Giant's already using it. And there's a lot of lessons and I'll walk through some retail use cases, but let me spend like a, quite a bit of time talking about the media and the current landscape itself. So that'll give you a pretty good background, right? So if you look at like the TV watching, daily basis, I think we spend about three hours right on TV watching TV every day. So it used to be a little higher. It used to be like 207 minutes. At one point during the pandemic, it was 213 minutes a day. And then based on Statistica and other analyst sites, it's actually gonna go down specifically TV.

[00:04:50] What I mean is like traditional screen, the big screens on your home. But then if you break it down a little bit in terms of, overall screen time, that's actually not [00:05:00] reducing, that's actually increasing. So we are. all adults in America on average, over 18 are spending about four hours and 16 minutes a day.

[00:05:13] Watching consuming content. So that also includes the screen share time of things like YouTube, especially the younger audience, watching more content. And I'm sure, our listeners are aware that, the world population is about seven point 9 billion. So out of the seven, 9.9 billion, the YouTube audience is about 2.5, 6 billion.

[00:05:32] So that's the sizeable number, right? That's not to ignore. And YouTube's content reach is about 32% of the population, right? Of the internet population, not the world population, but the internet population then the average is about 51%. So it's pretty, pretty large numbers.

[00:05:49] You're talking about. They've also had especially tremendous growth during the pandemic and as we are getting, outta the pandemic because the audience is very strong, right? Same thing. Some sort of [00:06:00] applies to every other audience is like Instagram 1.4, 8 billion users rate. And then they average is about 18.7%.

[00:06:08] And they grew, I think about, 85 million users, 6.1%. TikTok is another one that's actually growing fast as well. They are 60 plus million users, 7.3, some percent usage. So you're seeing this audience of, audience growth across. And then you're also seeing streaming and mu music services, right?

[00:06:27] People are willing to pay for these things because at one point, there was a lot of ad covered content, but now of course there is 31% of the people in America pay. For a streaming service or a movie service, right? This is not only about just a subscription it's it could be about subscription on demand, one time purchase, right across all those things.

[00:06:47] So you're seeing like content, people are consuming content, but also paying for it. And there is also a big appetite for this type of things. Which is really interesting to see. The other thing is that, as people are spending a [00:07:00] lot of time in, free content consumption, social media, right?

[00:07:02] The whole social media advertising spend its itself is about 33 point. One person of the total ad spent right. Pretty big, so all these things are growing. And another thing that's interesting is because a lot of the stuff that we cover is very commerce oriented, right? So if you look at the worldwide RPU right.

[00:07:18] Average revenue per user for eCommerce, it's about a thousand dollars, right? In the us it's about $3,000. So the eCommerce is more advanced in the us. Other than us is, of course you have some of the Asian countries which have more commerce, like Hong Kong, for instance, So that's a big, that's a big number, and that sort of purchased the ARPO is broken down across about, electronics being the primary category about 9 billion, nine, nine 988 billion annual spend followed by fashion, which is about 900 billion. And then you have other categories going on. Another thing Jeff, that also somewhat caught my attention is this this whole concept of, grocery online.

[00:07:58] People purchasing grocery [00:08:00] online with any of the services. I, I think in my previous podcast I told right these days that Sarah and I, only like all of our safe shopping is pretty much in order online and pick up in store right now. We even started doing that with Walmart as well.

[00:08:13] So now we basically, do either, Walmart, grocery or safe a grocery, if we need to get grocery right. Worldwide, I think it's about 28%. Other population have at least done it. Now you look at the United States compared to the world, it's actually, the number is slightly low.

[00:08:27] It's about 23%, 23.7%, but that's actually an increasing percent rate. But the Asian countries have much more deeper online grocery purchases. This is an interesting thing because today I think even a few weeks ago, we ended up speaking to a couple of startups. Jeff, remember the delivery companies, right?

[00:08:44] This is a really exciting area because I think this has a lot of growth, potential. And I think pretty much, we are gonna have, Bo just like we having Amazon boxes appearing in our house all over the world. And even in the us, you're gonna have a lot more boxes coming in from not just Amazon, but all kinds of grocery and all [00:09:00] kinds of other retailers.

[00:09:00] Then that same thing also somewhat applies to other industries as well, like travel and everything, but let's let me first address the retail and then we'll talk a little bit about travel, right? Retail I think is interesting because in the retail space, like how can, if I'm a retailer, how do I actually gain the attention rate of my shoppers of my consumers?

[00:09:21] See, I think the most important thing is to look at all your touch points because in the old world, it used to be what I managed 10 years ago, eight years ago, when apps came in and it's all about I have a website online site, I have a, I have a. and then I have an app, but the world now is far more complicated because users have multiple touchpoints.

[00:09:40] It's just not the, it's just not the store. It's just not the online app. It's just not the website. Even in, on the only a mobile device, there are 20 different ways one could interact with you. They could be opening up a Google map app and they can communicate with you or with your brand through.[00:10:00]

[00:10:00] Through a Google's business messenger or through Apple's business messenger. They could be doing search on the phone. Your filters appear, they may be in the text, they might be texting their friend, but they may be referring to your brand or like they may doing a shopping, referring to the shopping notion, and then you could appear there's a filter, right?

[00:10:17] An app, a little app light in there, or an app clip. So all these touch points are there and there is much many ways to interact with the user. Which means there are more ways to the attention is sliced and diced in, in smaller chunks. But as a brand, you can't try.

[00:10:35] You can't, you cannot just focus on capturing all the major three chunks you wanna be able to capture. Smaller slices, but many of those smaller slices, which makes it harder for a brand, but also it creates more exposure, more probability that they will actually look at you. Which is which is much, much better.

[00:10:53] The other thing I also like to focus is as retailers, you always think about customer journey, right? Let me give you some [00:11:00] two examples on these journeys, right? One of the brands is one of the, one of the areas we could look at is essentially in the automobile sector, right?

[00:11:08] Imagine you are in the automobile sector and you have a brand within your company that provides. Oil changes. There's another brand that actually provide car washes. And then there's another one that does repair and maybe another one that provides paint. So you can look at how the attention gets broken across all these things.

[00:11:26] The car wash would be a weekly activity. Someone would come every week, every three week, every two weeks, every once a month. But then as you go through the upper spectrum, very seldomly with like once in every two years, they may get, they may come for a repair and hopefully they don't come, not a repair, but a pain job.

[00:11:45] Or a collision job, but they may come more frequently for an oil change, every three months. So you can look at all those things and plot a consumer's path, a journey through you. And how many times do they get to interact? Not just with one brand, but across all your [00:12:00] brands. So I think this is where, like a lot of the understanding of the customer's data is very important.

[00:12:05] Really deeply understanding the customer and breaking down all the, sort of the brand barriers and data segmentation challenges, but really understanding, like creating a full path, the full, the single view of the customer, the full view of the customer. Also understanding using machine learning, understanding how they're interacting across all your apps, because one of the challenges that happened within brands is that, and retailers is.

[00:12:29] As the demand for digital group, people just started releasing so many apps, right? There are so many apps out there. But there is no data that are collected from them, or not enough, or in the data is coming in. It's not merged with the remaining data. So this whole idea of being able to create that single view, understanding and personalizing and not just personalizing thing, but Uber personalizing, creating contextual personalizing, and also creating a cross brand. Holistic view of a given customer, I think is super important. I can also give a similar [00:13:00] example, Jeff, on the beauty industry, right? So if you are a beauty retailer, or if you're a beauty brand, imagine the female consumer, from the time she wakes up, till the time she goes to bed, all the way, on her shopping parents, the early wake up Mor morning routine. The application, of foundations, the application of makeup, the application of, mascara and all those things. And then from the morning, till the time one is going to work, and then online shopping behavior is right. And then ability to create journaling throughout this process throughout the day. And some parts of the data is automatically captured. The other part is cap manually entered. or captured through various forms of interactions. And then when she walks into your store.

[00:13:39] So this entire journey I think is a part of the attention. So the beautiful thing about retail, I think is it's unlike the ad folks, because the ad part where the ad providers or advertisers the traditional, the ad media. They, even though they have a large volume of data the journey is not clearly stitched because they're not the single brand that is provided because they are serving the [00:14:00]brands as a, as an ad tech or an ad media company.

[00:14:03] But I think as a retailer, you're serving somebody through that entire customer life cycle across that entire day in a life, which gives you a better visibility. You wanna track that data, right? And you wanna create better personalization, better ways to serve this customer. And also to think about methods to increase that attention space.

[00:14:27] Jeff Roster: Curious, Brian, if you've had any Any thoughts on the super apps that we've talked about a little bit in the past in use in China, in the east versus the west. And we don't have a super app, I guess I'm gonna tee up and see if if you think Elon's got a shot at turning Twitter into a super app, like that tweet that we both commented on.

[00:14:47] So maybe just talk a little bit about super apps in the customer journey in the, does that help or hurt in the attention? The intention economy. And then maybe speculate a little bit. What do you think Elon might be trying to do with Twitter? [00:15:00]

[00:15:00] Brian Sathianathan: See, I think the super app concept is definitely interesting because just like Ilan said, right?

[00:15:04] This super apps are like super, like extremely popular in Asia. WeChat is one of them. And there are tons of apps that's all using like single purpose. Even in the us, if you think about it I think A while back, there was some data I saw online that was like every day, consumers looks at only 13 apps, if you're not within the first couple of screen on your iPhone, or on Android app, most likely the app gets ignored or eventually deleted. So the idea is to that, Consumers have this goes back to the attention, right? Attention is a very scar commodity, right? Yes, we are increas. The pie is getting bigger and bigger, but it can only go so much.

[00:15:39] It's just like saying, there are only like, I don't know, X million Bitcoins or X million, X million resources of something. So it's a scares resource, so I think the question is how do you actually grab the attention? So I think the idea of a super app is differently interest.

[00:15:54] Super app apps, super apps have a positive and a negative, right? The positive is that you [00:16:00] are maximizing and optimizing the attention of the consumer. Because if you look at all the website, like all these consumer sites, right? As Jeff all these consumer attention technology the study of this, I think started 20, 30 years ago, I think, through Stanford and other places where they formally thought these kind of concepts in, in, in user design and computer human interface designs, all these concept of, attention attention optimization, things like. Keeping an eyeball on a site. And how do you create things? If you go to like things like, Pinterest, you keep on scrolling, the infinite bar, infinite scroll wheel comes in, those are all methods to create dopamine, right?

[00:16:37] Because the human mind always predicts. What's gonna come next. So a lot of these attention, capturing eyeball engagement T. Have been converted into scientific instruments, right? Like things like, companies like Facebook and companies like Pinterest TikTok, all these guys are. Over the years become experts and their expertise have been, got better and better by instrumentation, [00:17:00] of understanding the data. So the positive is that, you can even further optimize it through super app because as a consumer think about it, like it's just one app. It's very easy. I click on this, I do this, all my thing is there. I don't have to go through 20 things. In my daily today, if you look at it, certain apps are very hard, right?

[00:17:15] I have two separate emails. And then one email, if I had to respond to one email, one, one app has one method and the other one has another method. Then I go from my email to text message. I got copy things. It's just, it's very painful. It's very, it's not very sticky. It's very difficult.

[00:17:30] Every app optimizes within. But if you take the human functions across two, three hours of actions the optimizations are not there. Super, super apps allows us to even further optimize the experience and provide a better nicer consumer experience. So I definitely agree with Elon, but for retailers, there is a challenge with super app, right?

[00:17:47] If you are not in a retail business where, you can like the beauty example I gave you or the automobile. Example, I gave you, those are retail industries that is primed to do super apps because you have [00:18:00] 4, 5, 6 things that you can interact with. So you can create increase engagement, but they're also very transactional retail, businesses where, you know, you transact with somebody once in a while.

[00:18:09] So the problem with, so perhaps is that, so perhaps will create gateways, right? What I mean is today, if you look at online you, when you search. Google is your gateway. There is no better search engine than Google, right? Or unless you wanna have full privacy, somebody goes to do go, but then you don't get quite great results.

[00:18:26] Like what you get in Google. Facebook is your social gateway, right? Depending on who you ask. But then similarly, same thing on the same thing on the, on, at. If you are at home, either you ask your, a question to Alexa or you ask the same question to Google home, right? Those are becoming gateways, right?

[00:18:43] The thing with super apps is these bigger companies will end up creating apps that are highly engaging and they were, they already have lots of touch points with us. So they would, the super apps will allow bigger companies to create gateways. So there will be more wall gardens and more gateways.

[00:18:58] So you move from Apple's [00:19:00] wall garden, into Facebook's wall, garden, into Twitter's wall garden. When most ball garden. So it's it'll take out some of the retailers out today, a lot of retailers have to pay money to all these gatekeepers in order to get a small piece of the attention.

[00:19:13] So that is a problem. And that's gonna happen anyway. And so perhaps makes the problem even worse. But that's also interesting and an opportunity for retail brands is that, you can try your own super. And you can engage your loyalty consumers. You can engage your, consumers in there.

[00:19:29] And then, if you, so certain gateways are not fully established, I the wise go gateway in home is not fully established, even though the hardware is established, you can still put your app on Alexa. You can put your app on your home TV, in non fire TV or any of these things. So there are all these chances that these touch points still.

[00:19:47] So I think my encouraging messages, even though there is lots of negatives, the positives, I think outweigh and as a retail brand retailer or a brand, you wanna move sooner into these things and start [00:20:00] experimenting with these things.

[00:20:01] Jeff Roster: Do we have an example of a retail, an Western retailer that has a super app.

[00:20:06] I can't think of one.

[00:20:07] Brian Sathianathan: No, I don't think there is a retail, a strict retail example per se. But I think I've spoken to quite a few retail customers who are actually and prospects who are actually thinking of opportunities. So it's, I think it's coming. So

[00:20:20] Jeff Roster: That's pretty intriguing.

[00:20:21] And I'm guessing you're not gonna go any further into any detail on what you just said there. Yeah. yeah, but I guess what I can say, or I'll ask you. So Elon said that very interesting tweet out a week ago, saying. He could, why doesn't the west have a super app. And I think he was clearly implying that if he can successfully conclude Twitter AC his acquisition that maybe he might be thinking of that as a potential super app tying in a payment mechanism, tying in engagement, all that sort of stuff.

[00:20:50] So you're act, I think if I read you read your read your thinking there correctly you think that might be a possibility.

[00:20:58] Brian Sathianathan: It is a possibility. [00:21:00] Interesting. But I think the question is is it a possibility of Twitter is a hard question to answer, right? It goes back to Elon's own questions about bots and all the other things, but I think I'm a big wen more user, right?

[00:21:10] Venmo does that. To some degree today, right? You can actually pay, I can pay Jeff. And if I, within my network allow,

[00:21:17] Jeff Roster: feel free to, by the way, feel free to pay Jeff, all you all. You'd like,

[00:21:23] Brian Sathianathan: right now. I just have

[00:21:24] Jeff Roster: money going out. I don't have it coming in as much.

[00:21:26] Brian Sathianathan: I know. Yeah. But if I put that in if I make my conversation public, I could see that. And I can sort by certain categories, like all the yoga conversations or all, whatever, whatever interesting for, interesting house cleaning or whatever.

[00:21:39] You can look by topic and so on. I mean like people like, Venmo and some of these payment players, I think are also in a good chance to play there, but I think a lot of players will get into it. You will have Payment only social media companies going at it, then the strict content companies, right?

[00:21:54] Like Twitter and others from content perspective, going into payment and enabling payment in it. [00:22:00] I'm sure if like Twitter starts it, they can get a lot of volume because they already have a pretty big user base. So the possibilities are definitely there. And I think what's interesting that Twitter has compared to a YouTube or something else is.

[00:22:12] It's always Twitter is always considered as a short interaction, right? Payment transaction is a short interaction, even though shopping is a shopping bills over time, the actual payment process is always a short interaction. So I think it's very much in line with that thinking.

[00:22:26] Jeff Roster: It'd be fun to watch how that plays out.

[00:22:28] Brian, what happens in a recessionary scenario that we either are in, or a bunch of us think we are getting very close to in, in, in an attention economy scenario.

[00:22:42] Brian Sathianathan: I think that's an interesting question, Jeff. , I think this is As, recessions are hard to predict and when you come, when will you come out of recession, it's also hard to predict.

[00:22:49] But definitely, we are already from the financial side, a lot of value has been lost, especially in the last month of may and April. And I think it started in like late 20, 21. And you seeing these [00:23:00] things, I think in the financial markets as you, as very well, the, it's getting a stocks are getting a hit, even though stocks being a leading indicator.

[00:23:06] It's really good to see you. There are adjustments happening there, but then, that will also come into the private market with startup funding and, companies doing layoffs and everything. The attention economy is interesting, but before I go there, I also wanna talk about on the consumer side of things, because American consumers are spending today, right? If you look at like just the airline industry alone, because we have been, blocked at home for I don't know, year and a half or two locked at locked. And now everybody wants to go out. If you look at the whole package vacation, there is there was like 41.6, 5 billion, right?

[00:23:38] I think I think increase actually on the, sorry, 102 billion in package vacation this year alone year, over year increased 59% increase. That just speaks to the volume of spending and also goes. For the nature that people were, locked out at home during locked in at home during the research the pandemic period.

[00:23:57] And then you are seeing consumer spend, even [00:24:00] with the with, even with inflation, even with this high CPIs and all you are still seeing peoples spending. And I think that's also a sort of a pandemic post pandemic influence. But I think what'll happen is it'll take one or two quarters till this thing is squeezed out.

[00:24:14] I think we will have a very well spent summer, in terms of, more and more people traveling and spending more and doing vacations and all that stuff. And then as they come back, I think things will slow down. And I think along with the stock market getting hit, you will also probably see a consumer.

[00:24:30] Consumer credit squeeze and other things as well, because those are just natural things to follow. Now let's go into the, going back to this. So that's just the financial side of how the spending and the. The different touchpoints, but now if you go back to the attention economy suffered a, started a recession two quarters ago, maybe in January, as people are getting out of the pandemic. As some of these folks like Netflix and others, and even zoom lost, Netflix lost subscribers. And then the eyeballs are slowly slowing. The water in Ukraine [00:25:00] is moving attention out, and especially as we are approaching summer, more and more people are gonna travel, which is actually gonna take away a little bit of the online usage and some of the attention. But those are things that will return back again. But I think it's really interesting to see when you take the consumer spending squeeze that might come two quarters from now.

[00:25:17] And And the attention recess attention economy recession. But I think attention economy will always grow in grand scheme of things in short terms. Like I said, within a short time window, you may have an up pan down S and flows, but I think over time it'll still increase, because attention is a very scarce commodity rate. Whether, I think whether you are using it online, whether using it in traditional media, whether they're using it, doing physical shopping in stores it's a scares commodity. People have only so much time in a given day.

[00:25:46] So I think definitely brands have to compete. Retailers have to compete, the big companies have to compete and the science have to be mastered more and more, every.

[00:25:55] Jeff Roster: So in wrapping it up what should a retailer be doing? As we begin to think about [00:26:00] the impacts of an intention economy and as we all, as consumers begin to understand the value of our time and where we give well, where we give our time and where we give our attention, what should a retailer do?

[00:26:12] Brian Sathianathan: I think for retailers and even brands. I think this has always been a big priority, even though they don't specifically, call it an attention economy. This is somewhere, all, somewhere in marketing slides all the time. They call it generating traffic and leads and 63% of marketers, that's their biggest challenge.

[00:26:29] That's their biggest priority, right? This is across true across, all retail and brands. But the thing what's really interesting is I think I would focus on a couple of. First, I think I would focus on all my consumer touchpoint, which most brands and retailers know. But also not only to touch points that is available today, but what are all the possible touchpoints, right?

[00:26:49] My customer journey, which most retailers know their journey very well. but also understanding it from an instrument instrumented fashion, it's what is the empirical qualitative side versus what is the [00:27:00] measured quantitative side, do they do go together? And I think the third part that's really important is understanding and getting a holistic view of your data.

[00:27:08] Do I have a holistic view of the data today, right in my do I have a holistic view across. Do I have a holistic cross promotion strategy? Do I know my consumer cross brands across all the silos I have in my company? That's a very important one. And then once those three things, I think the thing to focus on is like, what are my, what are the avenues of my being present today, right?

[00:27:30] Because today it's not just having a mobile app, right? Because if you're a, not a well known retailer, people may not even use your mobile app. And very seldomly. So you wanna be able to, even with, in, in the whole aspect of mobile, you want be able to be in, be a filter. You wanna be able to be in business messenger.

[00:27:46] We want to be able to be in, search app plates. There are so many like avenues within just one device, right? That actually applies everywhere. That's similar math could apply in store. There are so many touchpoint in store similar things apply [00:28:00] online. So I think you want to think hard about what are all the touch points very carefully.

[00:28:03] And how do I leverage those touchpoints? Things like super apps, think of things like, being. Providing capabilities and all these touchpoints. The other thing is also understanding once you have data on your consumer, apply AI, unleash the power of machine learning, right? Understand your consumer more deeply, be able to do in a deeper contextual personalization ability to know your consumer at at an N equals one level, right?

[00:28:30] Not the traditional all school segmentation. You are consuming individually, but then not only just that, but also contextually. What Jeff wanted two hours ago is very different from what he wants right now. He wants me to transfer Venmo, him money. I'm just joking. But the idea is that people's attention and requirements change by the minute.

[00:28:46] But understanding that when they're interacting with your brand, I think is critical. So that's why I think, you wanna look at AI as that force within your. Jeff.

[00:28:55] Jeff Roster: Brian, we used to talk about the customer journey almost.

[00:28:58] Yeah. Almost cause it's like an interesting [00:29:00] idea or a concept, but as we, as a retailer tries to navigate through the attention economy and trying to battle. Re, battle us consumers getting off that, that journey and being distracted, that becomes much more of a mission, critical strategy going forward.

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